Healing and Spirituality

An Interview with Mary McFadyen / November 2005

By Oliver Klatt

Oliver: Mary, thank you for your openness for this interview. You have been initiated as a Reiki master by Mrs. Takata in summer 1980. This was some months before she died, in December 1980.

Mary: Well, it‘s my pleasure to be here. And I‘ll tell you what I can. I was thinking about it earlier today, but now it‘s getting a little bit foggy in my mind. It's 25 years ago... I was initiated in Reiki I in December, 1979 by John Gray, who was one of Mrs. Takata's first Reiki Masters, and when I began to practice Reiki after that I did several hundred hours of Reiki in about three months. I didn‘t know there was anything unusual about that–I will explain this a little bit later... And then, in July 1980, I got Reiki II, and I asked John one ore two questions about becoming a Reiki Master. I had been looking for something for seven years without knowing what it was and, interestingly, seven years prior to my finding Reiki, in 1972, I had a psychic reading from a woman called Betty Bethards and she said: "You are a teacher and a healer." I had worked in an office for years, but I thought, "Well, that's interesting..." and over the next few years I would sometimes think "That‘s all very nice, but I have nothing to teach and no way to heal." I explored various types of psychology, but nothing really attracted me enough. And, in fact, it was seven years within a week after that psychic reading that I met the man who started a process which led me to John Gray. So, in December, I went to John for Reiki I, and in July 1980 I got Reiki II, and by this time I felt that this was what I had been looking for. In fact, I knew this right away. When I heard about Reiki it was like bells went off in my head. I drove nearly three hundred kilometers for the initiations, and I still didn‘t really know what Reiki was when I went. I just knew I wanted it.

Oliver: So your motivation was to become a healer?

Mary: Yes. And I had been looking for something that did what Reiki did, it just absolutely felt right. Even though I still didn‘t know what it was really, but I just knew: "This is it!" So, I got Reiki I and II from John Gray. At the time I thought that Mrs. Takata was in Hawaii, that was what I had heard, but I didn‘t know any more than that. I was tested quite profoundly before I got Reiki I, before I got Reiki II, and then again before I became a Reiki Master. What happened before I became a Master was that somebody I loved a lot, I really cared about–a friend, a younger woman–I felt very betrayed by something that she did, and it hurt me very much. I really had to struggle with it. I lived in a spiritual community at the time, and I knew I needed to get my feelings into the right place, but I really struggled, and it took me about three weeks. After three weeks I was able to say, "It's okay. What she does it what she does; all I have to concern my self with is what I do," and I was able to move beyond it. Then, the very next day I run into somebody that I hadn't seen for a year, who told me, "Oh, did you know that Patricia is going to be initiated as a Reiki Master by Mrs. Takata?" and I said, "No, I didn‘t know!" Well, he told me where. I didn‘t know that Patricia Ewing, who had first introduced me to Reiki and sent me to John Gray, was in Oregon at that time. He gave me her number and I phoned her and asked, "Could I come and go to Mrs. Takata‘s class?" Because, you know, I really wanted to meet her. And so Patricia agreed, and we made some arrangements, and I went to Oregon. I went to the first class that Mrs. Takata gave. She was giving a Reiki 1 class on four evenings in a row. After the class I said to Patricia, "When can I meet Mrs. Takata?" and she said, "Well, maybe on Sunday." Sunday was the last day of the course and I had to catch a train to go back to California, and so I thought, "Oh my goodness, Sunday is too late." And I looked over at Mrs. Takata who was sitting on a chair, all by herself. The last people were leaving the hall, and it was as if she was surrounded by a circle of light, and I looked at her and I said to myself, "Now!" I walked over to her, and told her who I was, that I lived in a spiritual community, that I had both degrees of Reiki from John Gray and that I had done more than 500 hundred hours of hands-on Reiki in the last few months…

Oliver: This is a lot...

Mary: I didn't know it was a lot...I didn't know anybody except John and Patricia, and Patricia was in Oregon, so I was totally alone there in the community in Northern California, doing Reiki. So, I explained about myself to Mrs. Takata, and I told her that I hoped to become a Reiki Master, and I said would she consider me as a potential Reiki Master?... and then I stopped talking. I didn't ask to be initiated now. I wouldn't have had the temerity, the nerve, to do that! And there was a pause, and then she said, "Oh! We must start training you immediately." Then she called Patricia over and she told her she wanted me to be in Patricia‘s house–I was staying somewhere else–so she put me together with Patricia for the next few days, and she initiated us both. So, when I went back home I was a Reiki Master. And I was in shock. I couldn't believe what had happened. I was absolutely thrilled. My head was spinning, I was so astonished.

Oliver: So you received from Mrs. Takata everything you needed to teach First Degree, Second Degree and Initiations of Masters, all in one?

Mary: Yes. But I really believe, in retrospect, that Mrs. Takata initiated me so rapidly for several reasons. I think the major reason was that she probably had an intuition that she wouldn‘t be around much longer. It was clear to her that I was ready to be a Master, even though I hadn‘t done Reiki for very long. But I had lived in a spiritual community for several years. I had been on my spiritual path for years... I believe I had the qualities and dedication that she was looking for. And I had a huge experience with Reiki. I hadn‘t taught, but I had done several hundred hours of Reiki on all kinds of different problems, so I think these are the reasons why she initiated me when she did...

Oliver: Well, I feel that these circumstances are very different from the ones of the classes where sometimes today you can get a so called Reiki I and II class, including what is called a Reiki master degree, all in one weekend...

Mary: Yes, this has no substance...

Oliver:: Yes. So do you teach Reiki since then, I mean regularly, without breaks in between, since then...?

Mary: Yes...

Oliver: I know that you did the first Reiki seminar in Europe, it was in Hamburg. So the first Reiki seminar in Europe was in Germany...!?

Mary: Yes, the first European Reiki seminar was in Hamburg in the spring of 1981. And it was really interesting, because 25 years ago it was very hard to find a place where you could give a workshop with a fairly large number of people, and it was held in a run-down old warehouse, down at the docks. And it wasn‘t a very nice place, it was the kind of place where people would do band practice, dance rehearsals and so on. And I had to do the initiations in a kitchen. The door was not on the hinges, so I had to lift this big heavy door, put it in place, initiate two people because there was only room for two, move the door, let them out, let two more in, put it back.… (laughing)... but it was really a wonderful, wonderful workshop.

Oliver: How many participants?

Mary: There were 26...

Oliver: Oh, so many...

Mary: It was a lot, because doing all those initiations in a kitchen, with the door off, it was quite a challenge... (laughing)

Oliver: (laughing) I can imagine...

Mary: It was a wonderful, really wonderful experience, and at the end of it–there were a lot of men in the class–there were tears running down some of their cheeks. It was a really wonderful experience, the whole thing. And then I did a workshop in Frankfurt. There was a witch there at my introductory talk. She was not in the Reiki course, but there was some strange stuff going on around the workshop, it was quite interesting. And then I went to Findhorn, in Scotland, and I taught a Reiki class there... It was a beautiful and fascinating place. I went back with my husband later, and we spent three weeks there, and it really was a lovely place. Interestingly, last week in Portugal–there are a lot of Brazilians in Portugal– someone said to me, "I met somebody, who said she got Reiki from you, and she says she lives in Brazil.“ And I said: "Brazil? I‘ve never initiated anybody in Brazil." And then I remembered that there was a Brazilian in the class that I did at Findhorn, 25 years ago, so she is still presumably doing Reiki. She lives in the North of Brazil...

Oliver: Have you taught Reiki in many countries?

Mary: Yes...

Oliver: Do you remember some of them?

Mary: I have taught pretty much non-stop in Germany. There was about one year that I didn‘t come, but...

Oliver: You mean that you have taught Reiki here every year, since 1981?

Mary: Yes, twice a year...

Oliver: So this is 25 years now...

Mary: In Germany I taught seven years in Tübingen. I love Tübingen! I taught in Ravensburg and somewhere else around there, in the country, in a "schloss" (castle), and in Munich, Nurnberg, Stierberg, Berlin, Hamburg, Bremen…

Oliver: Oh, Bremen, it‘s my hometown...

Mary: Oh really? I taught there a few times... and then I taught in Switzerland, I went there a few times. And I taught in Iceland for a couple of years, then Mauritius in the Indian Ocean, India… where else? Portugal, Britain, the Hawaiian Islands– I taught there for five years. Oh, I loved it, it was one of my favorite places of all time to go to the Hawaiian Islands...

Oliver: I have never been there...

Mary: Its wonderful there, and its warm... and I have taught all over the USA, of course, ever since I was initiated…

Oliver: Without stopping in between?

Mary: No, I've always taught... I didn‘t teach in Germany for a year, because I was getting intuitions that it was time to make some changes, so I told my students, "I will come one more time, and teach the Second Degree, and then I will still come, but without teaching." And then I got a letter from Berlin saying, 'We have all these people waiting for you. When you are coming?' And so I‘ve been coming again. I really hardly stopped, there was just a little gap in between, but I was still teaching in the States and in other places during that time...

Oliver: You said that you lived in a spiritual community, before you got Reiki. I am very interested in similarities and differences between spiritual work and healing work, so, have you something to say to this theme? Would you say that the way of a healer, healing yourself and others, is the same way like the way of somebody who is walking on a spiritual path, meditating a lot, etc. Would you say that there are differences, similarities? Are both ways equal? Is one of these ways more important than the other?

Mary: Well, I think that healing is about spirituality. I don‘t think you can separate the two. For many people its unconscious. They are not aware of what they are doing. But in my classes I talk a lot about the nature of sickness and healing, and I give my students a lot of information about: how to recognize what the life problem is, what the mental-emotional problem is, that is causing the sickness. Because it‘s very clear that before we get sick we have a major problem that we haven‘t resolved. Most people, first of all, don‘t want to think about it; they think that they have gone past the issue and resolved it, but they haven‘t. And then, if they don‘t resolve it, that mental-emotional energy will make them sick to some degree. It can be minor or it can be absolutely major. So to me, a very important part of working as a healer–and I don‘t like to use that word actually because we don't heal other people, we help people to heal themselves–what I do is I work with healing energy. You know, it gives you a certain importance to say, "I‘m a healer!" the same as if you say, "I'm a doctor!" "I'm a lawyer!“ or some such thing, so I avoid that kind of language. For example I don‘t use the word 'patient' and I don‘t use the word 'healer' if I can avoid it. So, working with people from a healing aspect, it‘s very important to put them in touch with what it is in their life that is the cause of their illness, because otherwise you can heal the illness but if the problem and feelings are still there they will ultimately cause more illness. So, it's extremely important to get in touch with the original cause and clear it. Of course, Reiki also will clear the underlying problem as well as heal the physical body, over time, but I've found that getting the person consciously involved in the healing process will move it along much quicker. There are some wonderful books out today and I often recommend one by Colin Tipping called Radical Forgiveness: Making Room For The Miracle. It‘s an excellent book, because two indispensable ingredients for true healing are love and forgiveness. You can heal the body, but it can take much longer to come to a place where you can genuinely say that you love somebody who perhaps harmed you, and truly forgive them. Colin Tipping gives a revolutionary understanding of what forgiveness is...

Oliver: So, what is he saying?

Mary: Well, the way we generally look at forgiveness is: 'This person harmed me. This person wronged me, did me harm, and now I'm going to be magnanimous and I'm going to forgive him or her. I'm going to say okay, it may not be alright, but we'll carry on and I'll try to forget it.' Colin Tipping points out that this is not forgiveness at all...

Oliver: Ah...

Mary: What forgiveness is, is recognizing, that nobody did you any harm in the first place…

Oliver: I see...

Mary: It‘s an interesting book. I subscribe to his view, which is also a part of the spiritual path. I wouldn‘t have used the same words, but having read his definition I really subscribe to it wholeheartedly. A quotation that I give to my students in a Reiki I class is, 'No true healing of the body, mind or spirit can take place without some spiritual effort on the part of the sufferer.'

Oliver: So, what do you think: For your spiritual development, is it enough to treat yourself daily with Reiki? Or do you need some meditation also? I have read that you were or are a student of Sai Baba, so maybe you received something from him that helps you on that field...?

Mary: No, I don‘t think that one is dependant on the other, because if it were, nobody would get well. Many people who are sick are not conscious spiritual seekers, and their definition of spirituality might be very different from mine. It might be a 'Sunday affair,' you know? It might not be a seven-days-a-week-thing... which is not to say that they are not spiritual or that they are not genuine. There are many variations of people‘s definitions of spirituality, and the paths that they take... spirituality is an ingredient of healing, but it might not be a conscious ingredient. In other words, obviously you don‘t have to be on a spiritual path to heal from a major illness, but on the other hand some degree of inner change and growth must happen for there to be a true healing.

Oliver: And seen from the other side: Is healing a necessary ingredient for spirituality?

Mary: No.

Oliver: Okay... So this is interesting, isn‘t it?

Mary: Can you define a bit more what you mean by that?

Oliver: So, what I mean is, for example in some religions that come from the Far East, Buddhism for example, that are based on the idea of reincarnation, sometimes it is said that all you have to do is to follow your life path in a spiritual way, just to do what is necessary, with the ultimate goal to become enlightened, and just to do this... and then, one day, in this life or another, there will be no more need to reincarnate–maybe you decide then to reincarnate to help other people, but there is no more need coming from yourself–so, looking at this concept, my question is: May it not be enough, for the ultimate goal of enlightenment, to "only" follow a spiritual path, integrating some meditation techniques etc., but not particularly practicing a healing technique, a technique with the main focus on healing?

Mary: Well, of course, you can pursue a spiritual path without anything to do with any kind of healing system... Most great souls who have become spiritual teachers or saints haven‘t had anything to do with a healing system, because for one thing, they trust God! They expect... they ask God to heal them. And since healing is so much about the mind, a part of the mind, and also the emotions, we can heal perfectly well without any healing modalities or the help of another person. But for the average person, it can make a great difference to be able to go to someone and say, "Help me to get well!“… It‘s really a pretty big subject!...

Oliver: Yes... but what was your motivation to look for a teacher like Sai Baba? Was there a feeling of something missing in the Reiki system?

Mary: I was on my spiritual path long before I had Reiki... I was seeking for a long time, and I became a follower of Paramahansa Yogananda, and my husband and I discovered that there was a community in Northern California, in the mountains, called Ananda. It was founded by Swami Kriyananda who is an American, and he was a disciple of Yogananda from the age of nineteen on and he spent four years with Yogananda in Los Angeles, in the ashram there, before Yogananda left his body. And we were at Ananda for six years, and it was wonderful. It was during those years that I heard about Reiki, and then I got Reiki, and so what you were saying earlier about your own experience, that you may have missed something in the Reiki system... well, I never did because I came to Reiki after I was firmly committed to a spiritual path. I was living in a spiritual community with wonderful people, it was a village of a thousand acres, and you never had a conversation with anybody about anything for more than three or four minutes, before the word "God" came up... It was a wonderful environment. I had absorbed many of Yogananda‘s teachings by the time I got Reiki, so essentially I understood Reiki from a spiritual point of view. I understood quite a bit about energy before I had Reiki. A lot of Reiki I just naturally interpreted against what I already knew, and it was never a question for me that Reiki is holy, it is God-in-action. I never had any doubt in my mind whatsoever. Mrs. Takata said to Patricia and me, "Reiki is divine light. It is unconditional love." And there was never any doubt in my mind, I just didn‘t see any separation between God and the Universe and Reiki... they're all part of the same thing. And so, from that point of view, it was just the most wonderful experience to be able to work with the Reiki energy and help people to heal. And many of the people that I first worked on were very spiritual people. I did have some amazing experiences in those first months – I worked on people who were terminally ill with cancer, babies, children, bad backs, mental and emotional problems, a poisoned leg that the doctor said would have to be amputated unless something drastic happened, which Reiki healed…serious head injuries from a car accident…ghost pains in the leg of an amputee…a girl in Poland whom I had never met who was seriously ill with anorexia, who recovered when I gave her absent Reiki (and I learned that you don't need to know what someone looks like to do absent healing–it's preferable, but not absolutely essential)…it was such an exciting time and a real crash-course in healing!

Oliver: I would still like to come back to... or maybe I ask you directly: Do you do some kind of meditation daily or regularly?

Mary: Well, I‘m not the world‘s best meditator. But what I found within the first couple of years of having Reiki…even though I lived in a spiritual community, I was not awfully good at getting up at four in the morning to meditate and do various other practices. I was very sincere and dedicated, but I never have been a really great meditator–which is not something that I'm pleased about, it‘s simply a fact… but I found that doing Reiki intensively, which I was doing, working on people, will take you towards the same place. Reiki is a spiritual path, and to me one of the strengths of Reiki is that it is a spiritual path, the energy itself is God-in-action, it is unconditional love and divine light. And when you are constantly working with this energy you cannot help but grow, you cannot help but be taken by it in the right direction... That means of course that you have to use it a lot, and then it will do the same things for you... I still think that meditation is necessary, there really is no substitute, entirely, for meditation, but there is no question in my mind that Reiki is a spiritual path. However, its strength is that you do not have to belong to anything, you do not have to believe in anybody, you don‘t have to be a follower, you don‘t have to subscribe to a set of beliefs or rules and regulations, and that makes it available for everybody all over the world, it doesn‘t matter what religion you are, what belief system you have...

Oliver: I also see that this is a big advantage of the Usui system of Reiki, and for me this explains why it is so widespread around the world... and then, sometimes, I feel that it seems to have lost some of its essence... or something...

Mary: The Reiki that was given by Dr. Usui and came to us through Mrs. Takata is enough... But what has happened to it is that it has been distorted and diluted and changed until much of what is taught today as Reiki is not Reiki. There may be an energy there, and some of it is clearly a healing energy, it works, and it‘s fine... but much of it is not true healing energy, it‘s not the energy that Mrs. Takata gave us... and it‘s not Reiki. My guess is–it‘s only a guess, because nobody can possibly know–but my guess is that more than 70 percent of what is given as Reiki today is not Reiki… it has been changed: the symbols have been changed, the initiations have been changed, in some Reiki systems the students are not given the full four initiations for the First Degree, many only receive one, as if this is the same as four, but of course it‘s not the same. I have seen symbols in books that just make my toes curl–they are backwards, they are upside down, in fact to a very extensive degree the power symbol is taught backwards and the proper symbol is taught as an additional symbol. In fact, one puts energy in, the other takes it out... so, what is happening? People think that they can make changes and it‘s okay... well, it may be and it may not be... my personal view is that it‘s not. I try to stay true to what Mrs. Takata taught. Reiki has evolved since she died, there are various techniques, which we use the Reiki symbols for, which are extremely valuable, but they are still true to what was taught...

Oliver: Did you hear that some people say that Dr. Hayashi changed a lot, means that he taught not the same Reiki like Usui?

Mary: I think I may have, just in passing, read that, and I don‘t know anything about it. I would have to know what he changed and what he changed it from, before I would worry about what I am doing, because I know that what I am doing works. And this is my personal view: I understand that he systematized the actual treatments to some extent, and kept the first records, but I assume that he didn't change the symbols…

Oliver: It seems so, yes...

Mary: And we have three symbols in the Second Degree: The first one connects us to the power of the Universe. The second symbol connects us to Divine Mind. And the third symbol transcends time and space! What else is there? Why do we need more symbols? There was a time, in the late eighties and early nineties, when it seemed that everybody was running around trying to find new symbols, as if that made what they were doing better. It‘s not true! All we have to do is to know how to use what we‘ve got. And in my view, we only have a small piece of it. Perhaps there are more symbols. But the three that we have are incredible!

Oliver: Yes... Mary, I would like to come to another point now: In your book you wrote about healing crises, that you experienced them a lot before deep healing took place... I remember that you wrote something like that, is that right?

Mary: Yes...

Oliver: Can you say something about how you deal with healing crises? To give some recommendations to the people...

Mary: Well, the most important thing is to tell them that they might have one! (laughing)

Oliver: (laughing)

Mary: I don‘t call it a 'crisis,' I just say 'healing reaction'... and that this is very normal when the body is healing itself naturally. I tell this to my students, that it‘s important to mention to the person that this can happen, but not to make a big thing out of it. Just keep it low key, but be sure that you mention it. And then, if someone phones you after their first Reiki treatment and tells you that they feel terrible, you say: "Wonderful!" (laughing) because it is. I tell my clients that it usually doesn‘t last longer than twelve hours, and if they ask, "What might happen?" I say: "Your symptoms may be a little bit worse for a short time, and then you‘ll feel better!" and that‘s what happens. Some time ago there was one–actually it was not my healing situation, it was one of my student‘s, and she had been giving absent healings...

Oliver: You speak of 'absent healing' instead of 'distant healing'?

Mary: The term 'distant healing' implies that you‘re sending out the Reiki and that its going through the ethers, and in such-and-such a length of time it will arrive at its destination. That‘s not what happens, because the absent symbol transcends space, and in a real sense the person is right here, so I prefer to say 'absent healing'...

Oliver: I see, thank you for the explanation, and let‘s come back to the story...

Mary: Oh yes. Well, I was talking about this student of mine who worked with her mother who lived in a different State…she started with four consecutive treatments. Her mother was in her sixties, her health was very poor, she was very depressive, and she had all kinds of problems, the worst of which was chronic fatigue syndrome. She could only stay on her feet for about two hours at a time and she spent most of her time in bed… One thing about absent healing is that most people don‘t really believe in it, so when you ask them, "Is it okay if I give you some treatments?" they say, "Oh, sure," because they don‘t believe it will do anything…

Oliver: Oh yes, I have experienced that, too.

Mary: They think it‘s all a game that we are playing... So, her mother had said yes, and my student gave her four treatments a week in the first two weeks, two treatments a week during the next two weeks, and then one treatment a week for eight weeks... and after two months the mother finally had a huge reaction, which was emotional as well as physical. She felt terrible for a couple of days, worse than she has ever felt, but she didn‘t tell her daughter to stop, probably because she didn‘t believe that what her daughter was doing had anything to do with how she felt. And then she began to get well... and after three months she went to see the doctor who told her that she didn‘t have any symptoms of any of her problems, everything was totally cleared up, including the chronic fatigue syndrome…But in her case the big reaction really took a long time, because it was a whole lifetime of problems that had to be cleared up, whereas normally it would be in the first couple of days after starting treatment that the healing reaction took place… Sometimes there's an emotional reaction also, and if there is one it usually comes after the second or third treatment…

Oliver: I see. Well, again, I would like to try to ask you a third time...

Mary: ...about Sai Baba... (laughing)

Oliver: (laughing) ...although you seem to avoid it...

Mary: (laughing) No, I am quite happy to talk about it. I dearly loved Yogananda, and at the same time I always wanted a spiritual teacher who was in a body. And in 1985 I decided to go to India. Now, another Reiki Master, Marta Getty, and I had a nice relationship and we stayed in touch, and she and I would sometime meet. I remember we once had a meeting in a laundromat in London; she was on her way to Australia, and I was going somewhere, and we sat watching the machines and talking and eating ice cream or something... (laughing) One day, before I left for India, Marta phoned and told me that she had been in India and she had been in Sai Baba‘s ashram, and she told me the name and telephone number of the hotel where I should stay in Bangalore, the name and phone number of the taxi service I should use if I went to the ashram (which is 160 kilometers from Bangalore), what I would need, how things worked in the ashram... and I was sitting there and thinking, "I'm not going there..." I had no intention of going to Sai Baba‘s ashram. I had seen a film of him some years earlier which I enjoyed, but I was not at all interested in going to his ashram. I was going to India, and I was going to an ashram, but it wasn‘t his ashram. But I felt his energy pulling me. I know how spiritual teachers work, and I thought, "I'm not coming, I'm not going to Bangalore!" So I went to Muktananda‘s ashram, north of Bombay (now Mumbai). Swami Muktananda had been a part of my early spiritual experience, although I was never one of his followers. So I went there, and I had a very uncomfortable experience, nothing but problems (although I did have some good experiences in the healing room in the ashram, giving Reiki treatments). They do have a Western cafeteria in the ashram and I was able to get some Western food, which was really nice, but after about two weeks of being hit on the head with the message that I was in the wrong place, I finally thought, "I have to go to Sai Baba‘s ashram. I don't want to go, I object to going, but I suppose I have to go..." I was, you might say, spiritually sophisticated enough to see all the signs–it was rather hard not to–and as soon as I decided to go, it was as if every problem was resolved. I did not want to fly around India alone, and I found a girl in Muktananda's ashram who was going to Sai Baba‘s ashram also, on the same plane, and we were able to travel together. And in the taxi to the airport I began to understand. My new friend told me that Muktananda‘s guru, Nityananda, had many people come to him, and when someone was coming to see him who didn‘t belong with him, he threw rocks at them and shouted at them to go away! And this was what had been happening to me, metaphorically, while I was in Muktananda's ashram. We flew from Bombay to Bangalore, and later we had a three-and-a-half-hour taxi-ride to the ashram. All the information from Marta was a great boon and made everything much easier... So, I went to Sai Baba‘s ashram, and it was really wonderful, it was as if he rolled out the red carpet for me. I wasn‘t there very long, but it was really a wonderful few days, and I had a couple of very deep spiritual experiences there. It was a bit like when I discovered Reiki, and I knew that this is what I had been wanting, and so, from that time on, I have been a follower of Sai Baba. Since then I've been back there again, and on one trip I spent a few months in the ashram...

Oliver: Well, thank you for this sharing, Mary. I have a last question: Do you still practice Reiki daily?

Mary: Oh yes, absolutely! At the very least I do Reiki for myself. There was a time when it was optional, but it‘s not optional anymore... (laughing) I give treatments, and I do absent treatments–one way or another, I do Reiki every day...

Oliver: Thank you for the interview!

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Copyright by Oliver Klatt


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